The Talkstats Bookclub

[TheEcologist]

Hi Guys,

What would you guys think of a talkstats bookclub?

The idea behind it would be this, we select a book, then every two weeks we review a chapter of that book here in the forum. We say what we like, what we dont, what we learned, we discuss things we are unsure about, answer each others questions and generally learn new things. Everyone who joins in on a book, is then expected to join in on the discussion (once every two weeks) and read the chapter.

My first two selections would be:
A) The R Book by Crawley (advanced chapters, does everyone have the PDF?)
B) The R inferno (http://www.burns-stat.com/pages/Tutor/R_inferno.pdf)

Any other suggestions are welcome.

I will take the lead in organizing the first session & chapter, then a new member can take over.

I would like to know what you guys think.

M.

[Dason]

I'd be up for it. I don't have the R Book though so I probably wouldn't participate there - unless I could find it cheap (very cheap).

[interestednew]

I just bought it (and am trying to learn a lot more about R) so I would be interested. The book is BIG though so I think selecting a subset of chapters to go through would be best.

[trinker]

I'm in. My university has the R Book available in electronic format.

[vinux]

Good idea. I have the book. Where do we put this? Statisticspedia or here or in a group?

[TheEcologist]

Update:

4 votes for the R-book
0 votes for the R inferno

Looks like it will be the R-Book. We can discuss what chapters later.

[TheEcologist]

Good idea. I have the book. Where do we put this? Statisticspedia or here or in a group?

Discussions can be best held on the forum. However as session started I feel I will make a 500 word summary of our discussion and add it Statisticpedia.

[Link]

I'd be down if I can get a copy for free or very cheap.

To make it even more motivating and formal, why not set a time when we can meet online and chat? Then, I'd have even more reason not to put it off.

[TheEcologist]

How do you suggest we meet and chat? Skype? IRC?

[Link]

How do you suggest we meet and chat? Skype? IRC?

Any of the above. As long as we can decide on a means and just have an open discussion. I'm personally more familiar with skype.

[bryangoodrich]

A) The R Book by Crawley (advanced chapters, does everyone have the PDF?)

Whoa ... there's a pdf?! WTF am I doing carrying this book around?? lol

I totally like this idea. What chapters did you have in mind for The R Book? Depending on the aim we're taking, I think The R Inferno would be a better start, if our goal is to truly understand the inner workings of the R language; that book is amazing and insightful! Crawley's book would probably be better if our interest lies in learning more about using R for analysis, though.

Oh, and for another R book suggestion, for those interested in more numerical methods: Introduction to Scientific Programming and Simulation with R (http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Scientific-Programming-Simulation-Using/dp/1420068725/).

[interestednew]

i am more familiar with skype as well

[bryangoodrich]

You can put me down for the R book since I currently have it checked out for the next few weeks. I hate my UCD resources (used to be an econ grad there, and they never discontinued my resources! lol), since they are hard to manage. I don't know if I can get access to the pdf version. If anyone wants to not send it to me, PM me ;)

I've never used skype, but I'm sure I can pick it up. The problem with a specific meeting time is that we all have to be available for that meeting time when some of us may be on the other side of the world! We should start discussing if there is an appropriate time for a meeting. That is one of the benefits of the forum: we can communicate over time. Btw, skype is still free, right??

[Dason]

Btw, skype is still free, right??

I think the plan is and always has been for skype to be free in terms of internet to internet based calls. If you want to make an actual phone call with skype then you have to pay a little bit.

[TheEcologist]

I also believe that the different time zones would /could pose a problem especially for skype. Using the forum would make that less of a problem.

If we use the forum the rules will be, you have up to a specified date (14 days after the start date) to read and discuss a chapter. After that date, we will move on to the next chapter and the thread will be closed - so you have to be on time to contribute, and discuss or get any answers to questions you have.

TS Book club thread should start with the tag [TSBC] specifying TalkStats Book Club and then the book title and chapter.. e.g. [TSBC] The R-Book, chapter X, regressions.

Oke time to select the chapters:



Getting Started
Essentials of the R Language
Data Input
Dataframes
Graphics
Tables
Mathematics
Classical Tests
Statistical Modelling
Regression
Analysis of Variance
Analysis of Covariance
Generalized Linear Models
Count Data
Count Data in Tables
Proportion Data
Binary Response Variables
Generalized Additive Models
Mixed-Effects Models
Non-linear Regression
Tree Models
Time Series Analysis
Multivariate Statistics
Spatial Statistics
Survival Analysis
Simulation Models
Changing the Look of Graphics


As this is not going to be a beginners course I suggest we skip everything up to Statistical Modelling, and make a choice from there. I would be interested in GAMs & ME-models. Although i think we should start with a simple chapter as regression or GLMs so the threshold is not too high. I'm likely to learn from any chapter we try.

[interestednew]

I thought numbering them might be easier


1 Getting Started
2 Essentials of the R Language
3 Data Input
4 Dataframes
5 Graphics
6 Tables
7 Mathematics
8 Classical Tests
9 Statistical Modelling
10 Regression
11 Analysis of Variance
12 Analysis of Covariance
13 Generalized Linear Models
14 Count Data
15 Count Data in Tables
16 Proportion Data
17 Binary Response Variables
18 Generalized Additive Models
19 Mixed-Effects Models
20 Non-linear Regression
21 Tree Models
22 Time Series Analysis
23 Multivariate Statistics
24 Spatial Statistics
25 Survival Analysis
26 Simulation Models
27 Changing the Look of Graphics

[interestednew]

I like pretty much 8 on.....

[Dason]

My vote goes for 13 - GLMs (I just love em' so much... but I haven't explored too much of R's capabilities because mostly we programmed all the stuff ourselves when we were learning about them)

[bryangoodrich]

I'm finishing up my brief stint with logistic (and GLMs) regressions sometime in the next week or so. From there I'm focusing on ANOVA generally, but I am interested to know more about analysis of covariance. Therefore, my vote is not to ignore 11 or 12. When we get to them is a matter of taste. I have a lot of interest in 23, though. I just don't know if I have the requisite knowledge to fully appreciate it, yet. I also have a recent background in GIS, and I find 24 could prove useful to know. I also think 20 could be of great interest along with 23. As for 27, I think that should just be ignored for another book (e.g., the lattice or ggplot2 book, both of which I found very useful for learning visualization techniques). Also, 22 could be deferred to another book (http://www.stat.pitt.edu/stoffer/tsa3/).

[bugman]

Im in. Either book would be good for me. Thanks for the heads up on the RInferno Marco, I appreciate that. It looks pretty full on!

If we go with th R book, I'd be keen to discuss the GAM chapter also, but the mixed-effects models could be interesting too.

[bugman]

notme,

while your intent is noble, I dont think this forum is the place to be posting file sharing websites.

P

[quark]

Awesome ideas guys. I'll make another banner for the book club and put it on the top of the pages, probably in a rotation with the running club banner.

Notme we welcome your input on statistics, but please don't post link to questionable website/material. Thanks bugman and Dason for the moderation.

[CowboyBear]

I really like the book club idea. Time zones are an issue for me (being on the other side of the Pacific to most of you), so would probably prefer forum over skype if possible. I'll pick up a copy of the R book at the library today, but may find it hard going - still not very skilful with R!

[bugman]

but may find it hard going - still not very skilful with R!

Really? I think your bootstraping thread suggests you won't find it that hard going at all CB :)

http://www.talkstats.com/showthread.php/18335-Bootstrap-bca-confidence-intervals-for-large-number-of-statistics-(boot)?highlight=

[trinker]

I think I'm the least competent one participating so my vote is for something I have some knowledge of to start like GLMs (Though logistic regression I've studied not survival) or ANCOVA. I'm excited about this. I think we could really add some great techniques and approaches beyond Crawley, but the book is a good base.

[TheEcologist]

Hi Guys,

Great that there are so many people enthusiastic about this. So let me select the start chapter and we can begin. There have been votes for anova, ancova, glm, ME-models and GAMS. So I think a very natural introduction would be to start with chapter 10, regressions. That subject seems like the perfect soft introduction for the other chapters (Crawley put it before the others for a reason). I have looked at the chapter and believe it is very comprehensive and that there will be something to learn for everyone.

I hope everyone agrees with the Chapter choice. Even if you feel you already know everything about the chapter we would still appreciate your input. You can help others with any problems or maybe you can help us by stating why you would do things differently? I will now start the first thread of the Talkstats book club!

[trinker]

Download the R Book data sets here:
http://www.bio.ic.ac.uk/research/mjcraw/therbook/index.htm

[Link]

Great! I guess we'll get started then and start posting!

Btw, I think it'd be a good idea to come up with a tentative schedule for the chapters. Sorry to keep bringing this up. I'm much better when there's a schedule to follow though (i.e a due date). Maybe a chapter a week? Or a chapter every two weeks?

[TheEcologist]

Hi Link,

I'm sorry I have to keep bringing up that its a chapter once every two weeks :p ;)
After the thread (http://www.talkstats.com/showthread.php/18579-TSBC-The-R-Book-chapter-10-regressions.) closes we directly start with the new chapter.
We will do two chapters a month, until we all agree its time for a new book.

Cheers,

M.

[CowboyBear]

Really? I think your bootstraping thread suggests you won't find it that hard going at all CB :)

http://www.talkstats.com/showthread.php/18335-Bootstrap-bca-confidence-intervals-for-large-number-of-statistics-(boot)?highlight=

Heh. I think there's a gulf of difference between managing to do something, and managing to do it with any elegance, but thanks :) I need to remember to get back to that thread and revise the code a bit!

[bryangoodrich]

So ... what's the next chapter?? Unlike some of you lazy bums, I got the reading done right away :P

[TheEcologist]

So ... what's the next chapter?? Unlike some of you lazy bums, I got the reading done right away :P

LOL.

Some of us have full time jobs, but I however do promise to be a better club member from now on. Next chapter will be started now.

[bryangoodrich]

Has anyone finished reading the ANOVA chapter yet? I really just started. I have been pretty busy this past week or so. I'm thinking that we should set ourselves up to read the next chapter while we discuss the chapter we already read. Otherwise, we give ourselves a timeframe for reading & discussion, and people will end up not coinciding on the latter part. If we separate the two, then people can finish up the reading early or late (during the prior discussion period) to meet their needs while not keeping them from participating in the discussion fully.

Thoughts?

[TheEcologist]

I'll be up for that, as I know some people wished to finish the discussion on the previous chapter. Plus, we can still enforce deadlines but they are more relaxed.

[Link]

So ... what's the next chapter?? Unlike some of you lazy bums, I got the reading done right away :P

LOL. Ok...ok. You got me. I'll catch back up! promise!

[bryangoodrich]

What's the next chapter after ANOVA going to be? I want to get started on that reading.

[Dason]

TheEcologist will be gone for a while so I wondering if we want to continue the book club or should we take a break for a while? We've technically been done with the last chapter for a while but we could get a new chapter started for anybody interested. Thoughts?

[bugman]

With the Ecologist gone and Cowboy Bear taking a break the obvious option is to have a break, but my experience in this forum tells me that if this were to happen it may dissipate into oblivion. Lets continue.

[vinux]

What is the plan? Go to next chapter or some new topic?

[bugman]

I'm guilty of not responding to the last chapter, so I think quick vote is in order...

[Dason]

It would make sense to move to the next chapter. I read through it earlier today so I could answer questions about it but it wasn't too exciting for me. Other options we could explore are 1) to move either to a chapter more people would be interested in participating in or 2) choose another book to discuss for a while since TheEcologist will be gone.

I think option 1 might be a little better since part of the reason we started where we did was to progress to the more interesting topics but still have the background necessary. I'm personally more interested in what the book has to say about generalized linear models which is what comes after ANCOVA so if we get through ANCOVA then I'll probably participate a little more.

[bryangoodrich]

I wondered what happened to everyone. Seems like the club died. Maybe stricture is not our best choice? Maybe we should instead have a "Book Discussion" where we simply discuss what we read in the book? People seem to want to go there own way with their limited time resources!

[trinker]

I wondered what happened to everyone. Seems like the club died. Maybe stricture is not our best choice? Maybe we should instead have a "Book Discussion" where we simply discuss what we read in the book? People seem to want to go there own way with their limited time resources!

I think this may be a good direction.

[TheEcologist]

Hi Guys,

I'm happy to start a new book. It seems that although useful the basic statistics chapters did not invoke "great enthusiasm" by the experts. So why not try something more advanced? Or something more controversial? And indeed change Club to a chapter discussion thread? With no close dates for the old chapters but only dates for opening new chapter discussion setup by the quick readers?

So what do you guys want to do? Continue with Crawley? Or get stuck into something more challenging?

[bryangoodrich]

I would like to continue with Crawley. I think it is a good resource to get through.

[Dason]

If I have time I'd probably be more willing to spend some time in the later chapters of Crawley. The earlier stuff didn't interest me as much so I didn't have as much motivation there.

[Dason]

Would anybody be interested in going through Edward Tufte's "The Visual Display of Quantitative Information" at some point? I don't think I could start a book in December but maybe the beginning of January? I'm not aware of any electronic copies floating around but this is a great book and I'd love to go through it again and actually discuss some of the ideas in there.

[TheEcologist]

Would anybody be interested in going through Edward Tufte's "The Visual Display of Quantitative Information" at some point? .

Yep, I'm up for it (dont have the book though).

[trinker]

Is it too late to say I'm interested :)

[Dason]

Nope! It is never too late.

[SiBorg]

I'm planning to get 'The R book'. Can I join as a remedial member? Might not be ready for the advanced chapters though...