# Probability of coincidence ?

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#### RobAbility

##### New Member
Probability of coincidence ? (WARNING... resolving this problem may force upon you world fame and extreme wealth)

I basically don't know where to start or how to start arranging a logical ordering of the data at hand that is to be used to determine the probabilities involved in determining the validity of hidden encoded information.

In short...is the encoded data merely coincidental, or not? The hidden encoded data is found within the KJV Bible. Here are a few examples.

If you look for the words "The Father" in the new testament, in code form it responds with the word "God".
If you look for the words "The Lord" in the new testament, in code form it responds with the word "Christ".
If you look for the words "The Father", "The Son", & "The Holy Spirit" in the new testament, in code form it responds with the words "God" & "Christ".
If you look for the words "Mark" "of God" in the new testament, in code form it responds with the words "Christ" & "The One God".

To me this defies mere coincidence. But again, I basically don't know where to start to perform a proper probability analysis of such a phenomena.

To begin, when dealing with code numbers, there is a restriction to a limited set of numbers, those being 156, 444, 462, and 906. That narrows the field.

These numbers represent names, and visa versa.
Etc. 156 = God, 444 = Jesus, 462 = Christ, and 906 = Jesus Christ.

As far as the rest goes, there is also an extreme word restriction. It is limited to....
"Jesus", "Christ", "Prophet", "Messiah", "and God", "God and", plus "aka the".

Thus overall, when appropriate responses pop up after a code search is performed, and they do, it does seem to be rather surprising at the very least.

To get a view of the decoding at work, thus have access to the details,
see http://www.outersecrets.com/real/biblecode2a.htm and click on "WATCH / LISTEN " to begin an automatic web page scrolling along with a complete audio coverage.

Once again I ask the question....Where does one start if intending to perform a proper probability analysis of such a phenomena.

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#### RobAbility

##### New Member
Go bark up a tree
Can you tell me how BARKING UP A TREE is connected to probabilities ? Can you tell me about your source or anything like that. Are you suggesting a vertical followed by horizontal approach of some kind or a branching method ?

Heh heh heh,.....you just gave me a great idea. Thanks in advance

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#### Dason

(WARNING... resolving this problem may force upon you world fame and extreme wealth)
I somewhat doubt that.

The hidden encoded data is found within the KJV Bible.
Why the KJV? Why not NLT or ESV? If we're going to investigate this kind of stuff wouldn't it make the most sense to look at the original Greek or Hebrew?

Once again I ask the question....Where does one start if intending to perform a proper probability analysis of such a phenomena.
I guess one thing you could do is try to see if applying the code to other documents provides similar phenomena. One reason I'm not inclined to care about this problem is that every one of the methods I've seen like this that applies to the bible also provides "surprising" results when applied to other documents as well which leads one to believe that it probably just is a coincidence. I understand if you want to take a probabilistic approach here but the best starting point might be to learn some basic probability.

#### RobAbility

##### New Member
I somewhat doubt that.

Why the KJV? Why not NLT or ESV? If we're going to investigate this kind of stuff wouldn't it make the most sense to look at the original Greek or Hebrew?

I guess one thing you could do is try to see if applying the code to other documents provides similar phenomena. One reason I'm not inclined to care about this problem is that every one of the methods I've seen like this that applies to the bible also provides "surprising" results when applied to other documents as well which leads one to believe that it probably just is a coincidence. I understand if you want to take a probabilistic approach here but the best starting point might be to learn some basic probability.
YES, I HAVE HEARD this argument before stating that the more proof you find of it elsewhere, the less proof of it there is.

I HAVE ALSO HEARD the argument before stating that if you do NOT find of it elsewhere, then it is clear that substantial proof is absent. (This includes finding it in other Bibles by some requests.)

Thus I ended up in a no win situation.

The best response that I have received so far was from a professor in my home town who specialized in statistical analysis at UofT. I had said to him that the outcome of his work could possibly save millions of lives. His response was "I'm not interested in saving millions of lives". He had previously taken part in the writing of "Solving the Bible Code Puzzle". (see Statistical Science. 1999, Vol. 14) SO NO LUCK THERE.

The codes revealed at the site that I have noted however (http://www.outersecrets.com/real/biblecode2a.htm ), are basically in a form that is to prove the existence of a God.

In doing so, the idea was to also reveal the fact that a God is not confined within his creations. Thus he sits beyond time and space, thus he sees all time and all space, thus the creation of a Bible from his point of view is not one creation followed by future translations and variations. Thus, from his point of view, he sees them all simultaneously as one creation.

The fact that codes are found even within today's KJV Bible is to provide proof of this.

At this moment, the last hits of the webpage were brief views on 20 Feb 05:21:07 and 22 Feb 10:34:19 , thus in general, as before for many a year, the act of reject before inspect follows through as the master.

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#### trinker

##### ggplot2orBust
Pretty sure CS Lewis made this same argument through logic in Mere Christianity. But not by looking at discourse.

#### spunky

##### Doesn't actually exist
I feel compelled to pull this one out yet one more time...

#### hlsmith

##### Less is more. Stay pure. Stay poor.
How exactly would millions of lives be saved by possibly finding a code in a man/woman written and edited book? I believe your mixture of questions and personal beliefs may turn people off.

Just state your statistical questions removed from personal inferences of grandiosity.

#### RobAbility

##### New Member
How exactly would millions of lives be saved by possibly finding a code in a man/woman written and edited book? I believe your mixture of questions and personal beliefs may turn people off.

Just state your statistical questions removed from personal inferences of grandiosity.

Also it is not uncommon for someone to focus upon the hope of possibly saving millions of lives in a negative manner,
while at the same time completely ignore someone else's shocking statement ( "I'm not interested in saving millions of lives" ).

Thus the idea of "saving lives" is quickly shot down, and "not saving lives" is accepted without opposition.

Also, I have not posted my request with the intent of there being an ongoing changing of the subject.

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#### RobAbility

##### New Member
Haven't we done the bible code already? In any case worth googling John Safran and the bible code and watching the relevant you tube. ICE ICE baby

Here we go again.........

If I speak English, that does not mean that I therefore also speak German. If in the movie "Amadeus" it was said the German is too brutal a language for opera, that did not intend to mean that all languages are too brutal for opera. If one specific "code" language is examined and is eventually regarded as being nothing but a bogus so called "Bible Code" language, that in no way effects any other possible Code language from possibly being a valid one. If one finds a counterfeit twenty dollar bill, that in no way implies that all twenty dollar bills are counterfeit. Thus if a specific code language is found to be a bogus code language, well congratulations, some trash has been identified as trash.

Unfortunately, in today's world, there are many a folk who think that ALL code languages are one in the same when it comes to looking for hidden encoded information within the bible. Thus to them, if one code language is trash, then all code languages are obviously trash. Thus in the world of bible codes, it is crystal clear to many a folk that if one sees one bad apple in the basket, then obviously, based upon their outstanding intellect, all of the other apples are bad as well, thus one need not even bother to examine them. Thus to them, if you find one counterfeit bill, then one must throw all bills out the window.

Thus for some bizarre reason, serious mental impairment appears when the topic at hand is Bible Codes.

Thanks for the video.

An excellent demonstration of a pure trash code language at work, the sloppiest code language that anyone could ever have dreamed up indeed.
That trash even fails the monkey text test, thus no one need say anything more about it.

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#### spunky

##### Doesn't actually exist
I think the best take-home message from this thread is what Dason said: learning some Statistics and maybe working on it yourself would be a really nice thing to do. Particularly because you apparently live next to one of the best universities in the country so you can benefit from that.

The fact of the matter is that people have been trying to look for "codes" or "clues" of the divine since time immemorial in sacred texts. There are even "secret codes" in the Rig Veda, the Qur'an and the Kabbalistic tradition of Jewish mysticism. And pure Mathematics have also been wielded as the key to unravel the mysteries of the divine (Guido Ubaldu's incorrect proof of God comes to mind). Everything, of course, has ultimately failed and been plagued with errors, which probably helps you understand why most scientists just shrug their shoulders and move along when claims like these are made.

Still, however, you can always work on this in your spare time. Who knows... maybe you'll eventually find "the code"

#### RobAbility

##### New Member
I think the best take-home message from this thread is ....... Still however, you can always work on this in your spare time. Who knows... maybe you'll eventually find "the code"
I did find the code. That's the point.

But this kind of response is nothing new to me.

Back in grade school I noticed that that thing known to us as "MOTION" seemed a bit odd. Based upon a simple analysis of it I soon realized that what seemed to be happening in front of our eyes was absolutely impossible. What I could not understand was why others did not seem to notice this.

Anyhow I pointed this out to my science teacher and he basically told me sit down and shut up because as far as he was concerned I did not know what I was talking about.

Shortly after that my parents had pulled me out of school for reasons that are too lengthy to mention here, but that was the end of education and thus I did not get the opportunity to acquire any education in the field of physics.

Years later I went back to my analysis of motion. Soon I had figured out what was really going on. Next I turned my understanding into a geometric representation and then used the geometric representation to convert my understanding into equations. I then borrowed a physics book and was tickled pink to find out that my equations were identical to those known today as the Lorentz-Fitzgerald Contraction equation, the Time Dilation equation, the Lorentz Transformation equations, and the Velocity Addition equation.

By analyzing absolute motion present within an absolute Space-Time continuum, I ended up with a relativistic outcome which is the same as that known as Einstein's theory of Special Relativity, and at the same time was obviously revealing the absolute foundation that had created the relativistic outcome.

Meanwhile my science teacher thought of me as nothing but an idiot because I did not see things the same way as others in general do.

Thus it is no surprise that one teacher, during an annual student review time, said to the parents of one particular student, that the student was a backward child, a slow learner, a person who clearly had no academic future to be looking forward to, and a student who will most likely drop out of school. That students name was, Albert Einstein. Today, things are basically the same. If you are "different", then you are "defective", is still what people think.

The following video playlist collection is 1.5 hour in length.
A grade six education in general, plus grade nine math, is all that is required to reach a full understanding of motion to the point of understanding Albert Einstein's Special Relativity even better than most folks do.

But getting back to codes........

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#### spunky

##### Doesn't actually exist
This reminds of the "Texas sharpshooter fallacy"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_sharpshooter_fallacy

yes, there are numerous wrong issues with the approach the OP is mentioning, both philosophical and scientific (I would throw in a little confirmation bias as well). nevertheless, this is one of those questions where I thought it would be a better idea to follow Dason's path of infinite patience and, instead of writing up a snarky remark, just send him out in the long, rewarding journey of academia. at this point I think it has become very clear that the consensus on the board is that the OP's claim is somewhere between "plain wrong" and "absolutely dubious", just like the many, many claims we've had about voter fraud in the past U.S. elections and bizarre fantasy football enthusiasts.

and who knows Greta... maybe after a few years of undergraduate education and gradschool he may eventually discover "the code". they'll probably make a movie out of it and we can go eat ice-cream and watch it on 3D!

#### Dason

So I just watched the thing you linked to. Honestly they keep saying that these matches are not possible by coincidence - I honestly don't see why it couldn't be coincidence. There are so many degrees of freedom associated with each of the things they found that it doesn't surprise me that they found something. Why this version of the bible? Why ELS? Why the number 6? Along with that for each of the findings you get to control where you start looking and where you stop and some ELS number and then you decide which phrases you're going to look for matches of (and not only that but apparently the author has no problem breaking the phrases up so that "mark of christ" can be "mark of" and "christ" seperately). How many of these searches were done that seemed like they could be meaningful but ended up with nothing interesting coming out of their code so they just never mentioned them again. Also the method used hashes more than one word to a number. So whereas God gives 156 - so does dog or foe. Does this mean that God is the foe? Or that God is only a dog?

I think Greta was dead on with the sharpshooter fallacy. It's ignoring all of the things that didn't go right and of course after doing countless searches you can point out the searches that do seem interesting. You can take the digits of pi and encode them into letters. If you search long enough you can find any phrase you might be interested in. You can take all of the integers, concatenate them, convert it into binary and encode that into letters - once again you can find any phrase you might be interested in in that result as well.

So in response to whether I think the findings can be a coincidence - with so many parameters at play the answer I must give is "yes". I haven't even done a probability calculation. I'm sure if I used the same system on a text of sufficient size and was allowed to change search phrases and where I need to look and specify some number for some arbitrary reason that I could easily find something in those texts too.

All of this on top of the overall question I have: Why!? What is the point. All that I got out of listening to that was somehow God and Christ are linked and using some arbitrary code (that isn't alluded to anywhere in the bible) strengthens this message. Could you somehow not get that from just reading the bible directly!?

#### TheEcologist

##### Global Moderator
I just did some quick and dirty pattern checking on the KJV, back checking it against a physics literature database, cause as the OP says;

the more proof you find of it elsewhere, the less proof of it there is.
Which makes mucho sense to me.

Well to make a long story short, I took the outliers out of the data, and then put them back in, and transformed the residuals with a natural log, and then took the exponent of those.. and then run my data through the image function in R.. and this clear message popped out:

Spooky. Needless to say, I'm not watching any pron anymore.

#### TheEcologist

##### Global Moderator
Oke, I also did a serious number lookup. Here is the geolocation of OP's IP.

And here is the geolocation of the derived IP address associated with the email address (***@ sympatico.ca linked on the site the OP spams multiple times.

So now I ask you guys for the Probability of coincidence ?

Are these posts are meant to generate traffic to said website? And if so, what does that constitute?

#### spunky

##### Doesn't actually exist
hey! we're wondering here whether or not your a spammer?

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