# Immigrants VS Americans educational levels in relation to Welfare

#### Christinaf321

##### New Member
I recently came across a graph comparing education levels between foreign born immigrants and US born citizens that was divided into four categories. Less than highschool, Highschool graduate, Some college, Bachelor or more

9% of us born did not graduate And 27% of foreign born did not graduate

The graph further breaks down into 7 birth places the immigrants came from and their individual education alone. Since I have already did the math I will use this as an example

Someone told me I did not know how to read a map as they are an engineer and work with statistics everyday. Because I read the map as if there were just as many foreign born immigrants as there were US born the percentages would be different.

US BORN 9%,

MEXICO BORN 54%

If you look at the chart you would say there is a 45% difference in how many Mexicans graduate versus Americans. I say that is false. Since the number they calculated the percentages from are not the same.

Say there is 300,000,000 US BORN

and

300,000 Mexican born

There is no way to calculate the percent of how many Mexicans would not graduate if there were 300,000,000. If there is I couldn’t find it.

I ended up finding the percent difference which ended up being 5%

Does that mean there is only a 5% difference in how many US-MEXICO BORN graduate? If so, could you calculate the number of mexico born who wouldn’t graduate if they were the same as US BORN?

Is there any other way to come to a more accurate conclusion of the difference in the two?

How does someone else read this kind of graph?

To say 54 percent of Mexicans didn’t finish high school is insinuating that the more that come over will keep the results the same? I don’t see how

Also I found the percent difference by Finding the 9% of US born .09x300,000,000=27,000,000

The Mexico born .57x300,000=171,000

27,000,000-171,000=269,829,000

27,000,000+171,000=27,171,000

27,171,000/2=13,585,500

13,585,500/269,829,000=.05

5%

I don’t know if the percent difference is accurate because again the percentages weren’t derived from the same number. Also if it is correct, does that imply the difference between how many did not graduate is alone 5%. Stating there isn’t much of a difference between how many do not graduate?

If you were to say welfare is used primarily by those who do not graduate, I’m trying to prove that you cannot say more immigrants = more welfare. Especially if the same amount do graduate and pay into taxes, would it not cancel itself out. Not costing Americans anymore money?

My whole view was if their are less foreign born population than US born than the more there were the percentages would change, possibly with even less percentage not graduating.

#### hlsmith

##### Less is more. Stay pure. Stay poor.
Can you provide a link to the chart you are referencing?

Given numbers are accurate, this is likely just a rate difference problem: 54% - 9% = 45%.

Tying in social services would require data or strong assumptions in that I may imagine usage of those services may not be proportionate across groups and differ in value by state.

#### Dason

You might want to check your math.

27,000,000-171,000 isn't what you say it is.

But I don't really understand your logic. And by that I mean I both don't understand how or why you were doing the steps you did to arrive at your 5% and I don't agree with a lot of your other logic.

#### Christinaf321

##### New Member
Can you provide a link to the chart you are referencing?

Given numbers are accurate, this is likely just a rate difference problem: 54% - 9% = 45%.

Tying in social services would require data or strong assumptions in that I may imagine usage of those services may not be proportionate across groups and differ in value by state.
I just couldn’t figure out how if there are less people that are born in Mexico, it is a 45% difference.
If there are more people US born doesn’t that make the results unfair. Favoring the side with more of a population?
If the difference is 45% that means 45% more Mexicans didn’t graduate than Americans? There is no way if they derived from different numbers.
in actuality 27,000,000 Americans and 171,000 Mexicans did not graduate so you would have to find the percentage of that to be able to determine the actual difference.
And I see your perspective, but just in theory let’s say all who didn’t graduate use welfare to make it simpler. I am no math expert whatsoever I just read this graph in a way I’m trying to find a logical explanation for.

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#### Christinaf321

##### New Member
You might want to check your math.

27,000,000-171,000 isn't what you say it is.

But I don't really understand your logic. And by that I mean I both don't understand how or why you were doing the steps you did to arrive at your 5% and I don't agree with a lot of your other logic.
I checked 27,000,000-171,000 and come to the same conclusion?
I am no math expert but I came across “percentage difference” and that is the formula I used.
What do you not agree with?
I’m trying to find logic not state logic. Where is the logic that 45% more Americans graduate than Mexicans if the numbers of the population are different it would mean the gap in how many don’t graduate isn’t as big as being presented.

#### Christinaf321

##### New Member
I just couldn’t figure out how if there are less people that are born in Mexico, it is a 45% difference.
If there are more people US born doesn’t that make the results unfair. Favoring the side with more of a population?
If the difference is 45% that means 45% more Mexicans didn’t graduate than Americans? There is no way if they derived from different numbers.
in actuality 27,000,000 Americans and 171,000 Mexicans did not graduate so you would have to find the percentage of that to be able to determine the actual difference.
And I see your perspective, but just in theory let’s say all who didn’t graduate use welfare to make it simpler. I am no math expert whatsoever I just read this graph in a way I’m trying to find a logical explanation for.

then I thought maybe if the difference was somehow only 5% that could mean if there were just as many Mexicans as Americans the difference in those who didn’t graduate would still be 5% but I couldn’t find the math to fit that into reality. Because your percentages would still have to equal 100 for each population.

#### Dason

I checked 27,000,000-171,000 and come to the same conclusion?
I am no math expert but I came across “percentage difference” and that is the formula I used.
What do you not agree with?
I’m trying to find logic not state logic. Where is the logic that 45% more Americans graduate than Mexicans if the numbers of the population are different it would mean the gap in how many don’t graduate isn’t as big as being presented.
I'm just saying if you subtract something from 27,000,000 you shouldn't end up with a bigger number.

the difference is 45% that means 45% more Mexicans didn’t graduate than Americans?
No

#### Christinaf321

##### New Member
I'm just saying if you subtract something from 27,000,000 you shouldn't end up with a bigger number.

No
okay thank you. I did it again I added too many zeros but I calculated it right it was still .05 when I divided.

#### Karabiner

##### TS Contributor
If the difference is 45% that means 45% more Mexicans didn’t graduate than Americans?
No. It says, if you pick 100 US-born US citizens, then you will find that 91 of them graduate. In comparison, if you pick 100 Mexican-born US citizens, then you will find that 46 of them graduate.

What you are seemingly are trying to figure out:
if I you pick 100 non-graduated US citizens, how many of them are US born and how many of them are Mexican-born.

With kind regards

Karabiner

#### Dason

okay thank you. I did it again I added too many zeros but I calculated it right it was still .05 when I divided.
I respectfully disagree and ask you to go through that math again. Honestly I don't think it matters because I think what you're trying to do with the calculation is irrelevant but it bugs me that it's still being done wrong. I guarantee if you do the calculation it will come out to be larger than .05

#### Christinaf321

##### New Member
No. It says, if you pick 100 US-born US citizens, then you will find that 91 of them graduate. In comparison, if you pick 100 Mexican-born US citizens, then you will find that 46 of them graduate.

What you are seemingly are trying to figure out:
if I you pick 100 non-graduated US citizens, how many of them are US born and how many of them are Mexican-born.

With kind regards

Karabiner
it says how do immigrants compare overall to us citizens I don’t see anywhere that says a study was taken of a sample of each.

#### Christinaf321

##### New Member
I respectfully disagree and ask you to go through that math again. Honestly I don't think it matters because I think what you're trying to do with the calculation is irrelevant but it bugs me that it's still being done wrong. I guarantee if you do the calculation it will come out to be larger than .05
What I am simply trying to calculate is the difference between how many Americans don’t graduate to how many Mexicans don’t graduate. Is there a way to do this that is more correct

#### Christinaf321

##### New Member
No. It says, if you pick 100 US-born US citizens, then you will find that 91 of them graduate. In comparison, if you pick 100 Mexican-born US citizens, then you will find that 46 of them graduate.

What you are seemingly are trying to figure out:
if I you pick 100 non-graduated US citizens, how many of them are US born and how many of them are Mexican-born.

With kind regards

Karabiner
But yes I am trying to see how many of each don’t graduate.
If we allowing 100,000,000 more Mexicans how would that affect the percentages assuming it is based off total population and not a portion of each

#### Karabiner

##### TS Contributor
If we allowing 100,000,000 more Mexicans how would that affect the percentages assuming it is based off total population and not a portion of each
Yes, there quite different questions which can possibly be asked with regard to this topic.

it says how do immigrants compare overall to us citizens I don’t see anywhere that says a study was taken of a sample of each.
Well, it was just referring to the fact that we use percentages if we want to describe
groups with respect to categorical characteristcs.

#### Dick_ mob1

##### New Member
Here, if you do not count, the level of education of Americans in general will be higher. It follows from historical and social circumstances. But, of course, there can be exceptions if you use outside help. For example, I use essay writing samples https://writingbros.com/essay-examples/jrotc/ It helps me in my studies. And now I have some free time for fishing lessons.

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#### hlsmith

##### Less is more. Stay pure. Stay poor.
Here, if you don't count, the level of education will be higher among Americans as a whole. It stems from historical and social circumstances.
Hey @Dick_ mob1 - what is three minnus 2? Just checking you aren't a bot given your posting on old threads and having such a cool avatar picture.

#### Dick_ mob1

##### New Member
Hey @Dick_ mob1 - what is three minnus 2? Just checking you aren't a bot given your posting on old threads and having such a cool avatar picture.
1 ,thank you for the compliment)

#### hlsmith

##### Less is more. Stay pure. Stay poor.
Yeah I thought you were likely human or a tricky bot. Good to hear you aren't metal/silicon!